Melek Avcı

 

ANKARA - EFA President Lorena Lopez Lacalle, drawing on the peace experiences of the Basque Country, assessed the ongoing process to resolve the Kurdish issue and emphasised that such peace processes require great patience, dedication and generosity.

 

The Basque Country is a geography in the north of Spain and southwest of France, with its own language (Basque) and culture. Throughout history, the people of the region have strongly demanded autonomy and independence. In line with these demands, in 1959, during the dictatorship of Francisco Franco, ETA (Euskadi Ta Askatasuna) was founded to protect Basque identity and language. ETA, which started an armed struggle in the late 1960s, was recognised as a ‘terrorist organisation’ by the Spanish state. The state carried out arrests, bans and international cooperation against the organisation. In 1998, ETA declared a temporary ceasefire for the first time, but the process was short-lived and fighting resumed.

 

In 2006, ETA declared a permanent ceasefire and began indirect talks with the government under Spanish Prime Minister José Luis Rodríguez Zapatero. However, in the same year, a bomb attack organised by ETA at Madrid Barajas Airport disrupted the process. In 2010, ETA announced that it had ceased all its actions, and in 2011 it announced that it had permanently renounced the armed struggle. This step was recognised as the turning point of the peace process in Spain. 

 

Active role of civil society in the process

 

By 2018, ETA declared itself dissolved. The disarmament process was completed under the supervision of international mediators. Civil society played a very active role in this process. Basque people, families, peace advocates and structures such as the ‘Gernika Platform’ tried to make their voices heard by both sides to make peace permanent. The Spanish state, on the other hand, described the process not as a ‘surrender’ but as a ‘victory of law’. However, a full social reconciliation did not take place; a ‘Truth and Reconciliation Commission’ like the one in South Africa was not established. Today the Basque Country enjoys extensive autonomy rights and the political struggle continues through democratic means. Countries such as Norway, Ireland and South Africa provided observer/mediator support to ETA's disarmament process, especially after 2011. International figures such as Kofi Annan have taken part in recent peace conferences. However, Spain has refused formal negotiations, defining the process as a purely ‘internal matter’.

 

Lorena Lopez Lacalle, President of the European Free Alliance (EFA), which brings together 47 regionalist and autonomist parties within the European Union and represents minorities in Europe, evaluated the process for the solution of the Kurdish question within the framework of the historical peace experiences of the Basque countries.

 

* On 27 February, Abdullah Öcalan made a ‘Call for Peace and the Construction of a Democratic Society’. How did you evaluate this call for peace despite years of isolation?

 

I think it was a very positive step, because now it's time to call for peace and democracy, not only in Kurdistan or in the Kurdish areas in Turkey, but in the whole world. It is time for peace and we all have to work together for it. I read the call very, very carefully and I even used part of the one sentence of the call in the closing speech that I gave last weekend in the North, where we had my party, the European Free Alliance, which is a European political party made up of 39 political parties in Europe. So I used Ocalan's words for the first time in one of our big gatherings and the sentence that they use is: "Respect for identities, free self-expression, democratic self-organisation of each segment of society on the basis of its own socio-economic and political structures is only possible through the existence of a democratic society and political space. There is no alternative to democracy in the pursuit and realisation of a political system, democratic consensus is the fundamental way". And so it was. The whole assembly was very positive to hear those words, because we totally agree that this is exactly what the European political party that I represent is striving for. We are here to promote peace and coexistence based on democratic values for all peoples, in solidarity with all peoples. I think that we have to tell the world that there are people like Öcalan and other leaders like, for example, the one who died yesterday, Pepe Mujica (Jose Mujica), very charismatic people who have dedicated their whole lives, their whole lives, to defending the values of our peoples and trying to promote coexistence. I admire Ocalan also because of the democratic confederalism that he is doing and the successes that you are having, for example, in the areas in the north of Syria. So many of our parties in Europe use democratic confederalism. They are, my own party uses it in the Basque Country. Because many parties, without mentioning that it is democratic federalism, they talk about feminism, eco-feminism, about democracy built from the bottom up, participatory processes. This is what Öcalan promoted. So of course we agree on these basic democratic principles.

 

*Although months have passed since this call, Turkey has not taken concrete steps towards the rights of the Kurdish people, a series of meetings have been held. So, how do you evaluate Turkey's attitude on this issue and its current position towards the call?

 

I think you know, it's much easier, I would say, and now that we have wars elsewhere. In a way it's easier to make war than to make peace. Peace also takes a long time, so we need a lot of patience. And it is not a question of time, but of results. We all have to work first in a very diplomatic and quiet way, and then in an open way. But I think that the fact that Pervin Buldan and Önder and other people from the DEM party went to meet Erdogan directly. That in itself is a big, big, big step for the world because they met together. And it is a big sign of generosity and commitment of the Kurdish people, because even if they still have so many leaders in prison, like Demirtaş, whom I know. There are also so many people, thousands of people, who are still in prison, and yet there is this generosity to come together to find an agreement. Of course, I also read the words that Erdogan said when he got the news about the PKK's decision on this band and disarming and putting an end to all activities last weekend, Erdogan said that this is an opportunity, a window of opportunity that needs to be used. And he has said that he wants a Turkey rooted in democracy, development, peace and justice. We can think whatever we want about Erdogan, I agree, I agree. But we have to take those words as a way to start working. We have to start working. Of course, what do we need? And I speak from experience, because I was part of the peace process in the Basque Country. In the Basque Country we were a little bit like you, where we made a lot of offers and the Spanish state did not respond. In the end we took a unilateral step and our disarmament was unilateral. Imagine, but we made amends for the violence in the Basque Country, because our commitment was a clear commitment to move forward, not to stand still, not to go backwards. So I think just the fact that the Kurdish people, Ocalan and the Kurdish people in Turkey are now totally convinced that this is the way forward. This is a very, very, very, very strong signal that Erdogan, I say Erdogan and Erdogan's government, because Turkey, it's much more than Erdogan, there are many people in Turkey, and we have to work with everybody in Turkey, so that you have to work, but we will help you, so that it becomes an obligation, an obligation to respond to this offer, sincere offer for peace, and also for peaceful coexistence in a democratic state in Turkey, there is the point where international organisations have to come forward.

 

*How did the PKK's announcement on 12 May that it had convened its congress upon Abdullah Öcalan's call and that the organisation had ended its armed activities resonate in the world?

 

Europe has to come out of this silence where it does not want to say anything because there are so many problems in the world today. I heard some leaders of the European Union two days ago saying that Europe must support this call for peace that comes from the Kurdish people. So Europe has to move forward. The UN has also said the same thing, that it will support these peace efforts. But that means, for example, very concrete, very concrete measures, that Europe has to remove the PKK from the list of terrorist organisations, because that is a step, you know, to show that there is a will to go in the same direction. So if the PKK does not exist anymore, the PKK should not be on a terrorist list. On the other hand, as convinced democrats, we have to support you in the call to work in the Turkish Parliament, in the Assembly, to have a democratic legal framework for the disarmament and for the whole peace process. Peace processes need a timetable and they usually need mediation. So we have to be open to ask third parties, diplomats, people that you know as politicians, now frontline politicians, because I think that diplomacy is one thing and politics is something else.

 

The diplomats have to work on all the content, on everything, to prepare the ground, and then the politicians have to work on democracy at the same time, in parallel, because politicians and parliaments are there to ensure democracy. So we have to create the democratic framework for these diplomatic efforts to become a reality. And these are two parallel paths that have to be followed, a third one, a third one is civil society in the Basque Country, we have worked a lot with civil society. Why? Because we had to inform the whole population. We opened up forums to discuss all the grievances, all the suffering that we had gone through. We had people in prison, torture, dead people, assassinations. So you have to promote empathy. We have to work a lot with civil society, we did that with civil society to overcome hatred because if you are trapped in hatred on both sides, hatred is the worst thing for society because hatred keeps you closed in your in your pain and you have to come out of your pain and realise that pain is pain for all human beings and all human beings feel pain. So we have to create that empathy so that we try to understand the other side's position.

 

*How long did it take to reach this stage and how long did it take to convince the society? While the Turkish government remains silent, people's sense of trust is being damaged.

 

This work of empathy takes time. It took us more than 10 years from the day when the organisation in general, but also the political parties, decided that in our case we had to put an end to 40 years of violence, it took time. But the most important thing is to secure processes. So we have to give small steps, but it is like when you saw, you with the needle, you make a small step, and you secure it the second, and you secure it so that the whole thing stays, stays, because now the offer is there, and we have to work, because we are not in 2015, not in 2015, we are in 2025, 10 years behind, and the world really has to open the doors to peace. And this call for peace is not only important for Turkey, it is very important for the whole Middle East, because it will have an influence in the Middle East, in Syria, in Palestine. It will have an impact because it is a mindset that we need to set our minds to peace. But it will also have an impact in the world. The new Pope, Leon 14, his very first two words were about peace. So I think we really need to put all our efforts and all our focus on peace.

 

This is something that Pervin Buldan said, and I totally agree with her. Now everyone has to focus on peace with patience, with perseverance. But of course, the Turkish government and I will open another topic. The Turkish government, we see that Erdogan wants to play the role of a great mediator in other processes, like Ukraine. He tried it with Palestine. Turkey is, geographically speaking, in the middle of both worlds, East and West. And yes, well, if Erdogan is ready to do something for the other conflicts in the world, he should of course start with his own conflict at home, which is the situation of the Kurdish population, of the Kurdish militants who are still in prison without having done anything. So you know, it is good to play this great mediator in democracies, but first you need democracy at home in Turkey, and you need to work for your own democracy in Turkey, because there is a will for democracy in the whole of Turkey. So we hope that things will go well, not like in 2015, now it is an obligation and everybody is looking at the situation, you are not alone. You're not alone.

 

* How healthy can the peace and negotiation process be conducted while the isolation of Abdullah Öcalan, a party to the negotiations, continues?

 

Of course Abdullah Öcalan must be free. 27 years of isolation, not only in prison, isolation, there is a point where leaders have to realise that they need each other. Erdogan knows that he needs Ocalan to secure the process, and he should be Erdogan, courageous and generous to fulfil his own commitments and free Ocalan, because the power of Ocalan is great. and Ocalan is indispensable. Ocalan has to be out, because Ocalan has to go and travel and convince everyone that this is the way forward, not only Ocalan, but many other comrades and people, and I'm thinking of Önder who died recently, and we met, we knew him. We need charismatic leaders, peacemakers, and now we need to work together with Ocalan and other peacemakers so that we can secure peace. So, of course, he has to be released immediately and he has to become a free citizen in order to work for peace in a democratic way, for a democratic Turkey. That is what he said. There is nothing against the law in that. On the contrary, steps have to be taken, and that was the case in all the trials in South Africa.

 

It happened in South Africa. It was the case at home, it is the case that some of our leaders who were in prison are now in parliament, are now working in parliament because parliament is the democratic forum to discuss everything. So we have to work in a democratic way. But of course with Ocalan and free Ocalan and free and many other people too. I'm thinking of Demirtaş. What did Demirtaş do? He met Ocalan in 2015, the Demirtaş also worked for peace and he's been in prison for almost 10 years now. So I think it goes beyond Ocalan, but the very first one to be released is Ocalan, and Erdogan knows that. So what I ask Erdogan is to keep his promises for peace. So when Erdogan talks about peace, democracy, justice, it's all very well, but peace, democracy, justice are words with a lot of meaning. They are not words that can be used in this way, but they are our words, they are words that matter. And Erdogan needs Öcalan free if he wants, as he says, Erdogan wants a free democratic society in Turkey.

 

* How does this whole process reflect on you, the EU, rights defenders? Could you tell us about your observations on the reflections? Because for the first time in the history of the world, an organisation has ended its work for peace without being defeated.

 

First of all, Europe is big. I would say that the leaders of the European Union, the European Commission, the states themselves, have been silent, and I blame them for their inaction. Yes, it is true that Ukraine is there, that Palestine is there, and they have made all the efforts there. But there is one thing that is very telling. You know, when there is a movement that decides to stop violence and to work for peace and democracy, Europe cannot go exactly the opposite way, which is to rearm to fight against Russia, against I think Europe needs to sit down and think and go back to its fundamental values. The European Union was created after the First and Second World Wars to promote peace and coexistence. It is in the treaty peace and coexistence. So we have to promote peace and coexistence. So at the moment not much has been done in the European Union. But now, with the two calls of Ocalan in February and the 12th Congress of the PKK. Congress. Yes, for the first time they say that they will be there to support these efforts in Kurdistan in general, but in Turkey in particular. So I think that the European Union, again, has to be bold, against our will, some European leaders in the European Union signed agreements, for example, on migration, with Erdogan and other economic agreements on oil, on energy.

 

But I do not believe that economic agreements can take precedence over the political action that is needed in parallel to ensure peace and democracy throughout the world. So economic interests cannot overshadow the fundamental rights of all peoples, which are the right to exist and the right to live in peace in the territories where we are, so even if I think that Europe has not been up to the task, at the same time I think that there are many in the European Union, like the party that you represent, that we are going to push for more politics, more politics that go beyond economic interests. Because, as Öcalan said, peace cannot be secured if there is no democracy. So we all have to work for democracy, and democracy means respecting the rights of all peoples, of all nations.

 

You cannot put peace on one side and democracy on the other

 

So Turkey is a very plural society. Here I can draw a parallel with Spain. In Spain we are many peoples, the Catalans, the Basques, the Galicians, many peoples living together in the same territory. And now we are beginning to be respected, but only now, but well at home, each of us has worked a lot for democracy, and the work we have done has also empowered us and made Spain and Madrid realise that we are people who want progress for everyone in Spain. We are not against Spain, with time they trust us. Now they trust us, before the Spanish government thought we were enemies. No, we have proved with facts, just as Öcalan is proving with facts, that there is a real will and commitment to build peace. And it takes time, but in the end it pays off. Today, for example, the Spanish government exists and governs, governs Spain, because we support it. Imagine, we support it, the Catalans, the Galicians, the Basques, many peoples support the government because we believe in a better democracy for all in Spain. And I think this is more or less the way you are going to start building a democratic society in Turkey. Like I said, it takes time. It takes a lot of generosity. Because, you know, at the beginning, a lot of people back home said, well, I don't care about Spain, because they are our enemies and my father was in prison and my son was killed. Yes, that was the case. My father was also in prison, but the highest aspiration of every single human being is to be happy on earth and to live in peace. And that is the supreme interest for everybody. And it must come first. So peace must come first, and as I said, peace with democracy. You cannot put peace and democracy together.

 

*As you know, Turkey is on the list of candidates for EU membership. Do you think that the solution of the Kurdish question and the democratisation process will accelerate Turkey's EU process, will it have an impact?

 

I think, first of all, this is going to go well. We are taking the very first steps, but peace is coming and that is good for the whole of Europe. The whole of Europe needs to know and get to know what democratic confederalism is, because democratic confederalism is a very, very good system for all societies, not just for you, for all societies, we are starting our conversation with them. This is good for everybody. And some parties like ours, we practice democratic confederalism, whether this will make it easier for Turkey to join the European Union, it depends. That is another debate. That is another debate and I would say it is a secondary objective. The European Union is a union within Europe. But not all European states are in the European Union. Some of the Nordic states, Norway, Iceland, are not in the European Union. Other states, such as Switzerland, are not in the European Union. So there is no need to say that if you are European, you are in the European Union. The case of Turkey is different, because Turkey, part of Turkey is geographically in Europe and another part is geographically not in Europe. I think that the role of Turkey is fundamental in geopolitics, because you are there and you see the world, the map of Europe is very different if you see it from Turkey than if you see it from the Basque Country. We have to go to the centre, and it's about cooperation between states, in whatever way, inside the European Union or outside the European Union, it doesn't really matter.

 

It doesn't really matter. The important thing is to work together, both economically and especially politically, because economics cannot be above politics, as it is now. Now capitalism rules the world, but I think that politics, you know, common sense, philosophers, intelligent, intellectual people, but working with everybody without making hierarchies, that is the way politics has to come first. So I think that good political relations with Turkey and the rest of the European states, not only the EU, the European Union states, is the way forward. But I don't think it's really linked. I don't see it as if you go for the peace process, it will be easier to get into the European Union. They are two different processes and we have always been in favour of referendums. We have always been convinced that it is up to the people to decide whether they want to belong to this club or to another club, whether they want to be, partly because there are other states that have different, you know, relations like EFTA, with the European Union, but it is the people, the whole society in Turkey, the people should vote on whether they want to be or not. But that also, I have to say, will take a lot of time, even if you lack a positive imagination that everybody in Turkey wants to be part of the European Union. It takes time. It takes more than five, six, probably ten years. It takes a lot of time, I know that Turkey is on the accession list, but it will take, I cannot make bets, but not less than five years. So, and this is in politics, five years is way, way ahead of us. First of all, we have to work on peace and secure democracy in Turkey. So let's talk about democracy in Turkey first, and then let the Turkish people decide democratically what they want. That is my opinion. But you know, you decide,

 

*Finally, what would be the most important message you would give to the peoples for the construction of peace and democratic society?

 

The political parties in Turkey, Öcalan himself, the PKK itself, have now made a big, big, big step forward. Now, as we did in the Basque Country, it is necessary to work with people, with everybody, to talk, to explain, to listen to each other, to organise conferences, debates. For us, in the Basque Country, it had a great, great healing effect, we followed the example of the Irish peace process. In the Irish peace process they did a process, a process where victims from both sides came together and tried to overcome all the, you know, the terrible things that they had lived through and that had a healing effect in the Basque Country. Now we can talk freely with people who still disagree with us, but we can talk freely without feeling bad after talking to them. But that takes time, that is a huge investment in investment by everybody, politicians, PKK, Yori, Ocean, everybody, mediators, international mediators helped us a lot, a lot, a lot, a lot to promote those difficult conversations about torture, about assassinations. You know, it takes time, but it works. It worked in Ireland. It worked in the Basque Country, and I'm pretty sure it will work for you, because the one thing that nobody can take away from you is the will for peace. This is something that Pepe Mujica, I met Pepe Mujica, the President of Uruguay, who died yesterday. He was also for peace. He always talked about democratic societies. And 89 years, you know, 89, he died at 89, but he started at 15. So imagine 70 years of his life like Ursula and our other very great leaders who want this.

 

I am convinced of that. But for that we need unity. We need to work together first, and a lot of patience, tons, tons or not a little bit, a lot of patience, a lot of tolerance, and never lose the smile. You know, smiles, smiles open a lot of doors. And we also need charismatic people, I will end with that. We need very charismatic people like the leader under water from other communities, not just from the Kurdish community, from other communities, very charismatic leaders like or Solanan and many others to convince everybody that this is the way forward. So I wish you, I wish you from the bottom of my heart. Great, great success. And as always, we are here for you. As always, thank you so much for your support, really.